Damning With Faint Praise
Andrew Sullivan, today:
Agreed. We wouldn't argue that Mary Cheney has been outed, or that her privacy as been invaded.
Sullivan continued:
Sullivan implicitly endorses an effort to bait and agitate what he considers to be a homophobic Republican base by drawing attention to Mary Cheney's sexuality.
In doing so, Sullivan finds himself in poor company. Like those who would defend spreading rumors of Sen. John McCain's "black baby" in 2000 (McCain adopted a Bangladeshi born child), Sullivan, Atrios, Joshua Marshall and others are complicit, through either their incredible naivete or transparent intellectual dishonesty, in furthering the Kerry/Edwards cynical campaign strategy of recruiting bigots to vote against their rival.
The cynical nature of the strategy is confirmed by Kerry/Edwards campaign manger Mary Beth Cahill's characterization of Mary Cheney's sexuality in crass political terms: "fair game" (VIDEO)
If Andrew Sullivan doesn't believe that name dropping in the middle of a debate is in any way politically motivated, then he's gullible.
If that sounds out of line, imagine Andrew Sullivan, Atrios, and Josh Marshall sitting around watching this clip from the Daily Show and saying, "Huh? I don't get it?"
And if Sullivan is prepared to defend gay-baiting the homophobic vote as a legitimate political tactic, then he's a fraud and should be exposed as such. Let's hope he's only gullible.
UPDATE An anonymous commenter below reminds us that there are some points not made in the above post that were later made in an email we sent to Andrew Sullivan.
For example, we agree that it is not a "low blow" to mention that Mary Cheney is a lesbian. The issue here is motive; that the Kerry/Edwards campaign is using her sexuality in an effort to turn out the bigot vote. Interpreting their name dropping as a kind gesture is wrong, and totally naive.
The video clip of Jon Stewart posted above is meant to back up our claim that it is obvious, to the point of mockery, that Mary Cheney's name has been inserted into these debates in a disingenuous fashion.
If the letter to Andrew seems less harsh, that's because it is. In the time between our post and the subsequent email, Andrew had updated his blog with a new post that convinced us that he was responding to a different line of argument, one which we agree is invalid.
Published below is an email we sent to Andrew earlier tonight...
I keep getting emails asserting that Kerry's mentioning of Mary Cheney is somehow offensive or gratuitous or a "low blow". Huh? Mary Cheney is out of the closet and a member, with her partner, of the vice-president's family. That's a public fact. No one's privacy is being invaded by mentioning this.
Agreed. We wouldn't argue that Mary Cheney has been outed, or that her privacy as been invaded.
Sullivan continued:
Does this makes [sic] Bush's base uncomfortable? Well, good. It's about time they were made uncomfortable in their acquiescence to discrimination. Does it make Bush uncomfortable? Even better.
Sullivan implicitly endorses an effort to bait and agitate what he considers to be a homophobic Republican base by drawing attention to Mary Cheney's sexuality.
In doing so, Sullivan finds himself in poor company. Like those who would defend spreading rumors of Sen. John McCain's "black baby" in 2000 (McCain adopted a Bangladeshi born child), Sullivan, Atrios, Joshua Marshall and others are complicit, through either their incredible naivete or transparent intellectual dishonesty, in furthering the Kerry/Edwards cynical campaign strategy of recruiting bigots to vote against their rival.
The cynical nature of the strategy is confirmed by Kerry/Edwards campaign manger Mary Beth Cahill's characterization of Mary Cheney's sexuality in crass political terms: "fair game" (VIDEO)
If Andrew Sullivan doesn't believe that name dropping in the middle of a debate is in any way politically motivated, then he's gullible.
If that sounds out of line, imagine Andrew Sullivan, Atrios, and Josh Marshall sitting around watching this clip from the Daily Show and saying, "Huh? I don't get it?"
![]() |
And if Sullivan is prepared to defend gay-baiting the homophobic vote as a legitimate political tactic, then he's a fraud and should be exposed as such. Let's hope he's only gullible.
UPDATE An anonymous commenter below reminds us that there are some points not made in the above post that were later made in an email we sent to Andrew Sullivan.
For example, we agree that it is not a "low blow" to mention that Mary Cheney is a lesbian. The issue here is motive; that the Kerry/Edwards campaign is using her sexuality in an effort to turn out the bigot vote. Interpreting their name dropping as a kind gesture is wrong, and totally naive.
The video clip of Jon Stewart posted above is meant to back up our claim that it is obvious, to the point of mockery, that Mary Cheney's name has been inserted into these debates in a disingenuous fashion.
If the letter to Andrew seems less harsh, that's because it is. In the time between our post and the subsequent email, Andrew had updated his blog with a new post that convinced us that he was responding to a different line of argument, one which we agree is invalid.
Published below is an email we sent to Andrew earlier tonight...
From: Recycler
Subject: Hurts me more than it hurts you
To: Andrew Sullivan
I think you're wrong on this one, Andrew. I've put together a post responding to some of what you've written today on the Mary Cheney issue. I hope you'll read it, and view the Jon Stewart Daily Show clip that is embedded in the post.
If Stewart sees this for what it is, I don't see why you can't.
I can't help that you're getting emails making what I believe are invalid assertions like, "Kerry outed Mary Cheney." But there is a valid and serious issue here of gay-baiting by the Kerry/Edwards campaign in an effort to recruit bigots to vote against the Bush/Cheney ticket by stroking their homophobic reactions.
Again, I agree with you that it not shameful to talk about someone as being gay. I agree that it is a silly argument to put forward, and I join you in dismissing that line of argument.
I do not think it is shameful to be of Bangladeshi descent, either. Yet some people decided to use McCain's adopted child's race to fan the flames of racism, and turn voters against him. I have a hard time believing that you are unable of seeing the same sort of political maneuvering in the overtly orchestrated name droppings by both Kerry and Edwards during the debates. It is hard for me to believe that you would not recognize EVERYTHING in those debates as being calculated ahead of time at some level.
I believe that you have roundly and totally rebutted the silly lines of argument. However, I do not see those arguments as representing the intellectual basis for concern over the use of Mary Cheney's sexuality as a political tool during the debates.
And regardless of your feelings on a constitutional amendment banning gay marriage, the ends do not justify the means. Encouraging bigots and homophobes to become politically active is at best disingenuous, and could very accurately be described as homophobia in and of itself.
Again, I would appreciate it if you would read my post, and treat the argument as seriously as you have the weak and invalid points made by some of your readership.
Take care,






36 Comments:
That Mrs. Edwards was so quick to accues Lynn Cheney of being ashamed of her lesbian daughter makes it clear that the remarks by Kerry and John Edwards during their debates were intended to box Bush & Cheney into a corner where they could be attacked as either hypocrites or homophobes.
That the Democrats would so cynically intrude upon a parent-child relationship for the purpose of political gain is appalling.
By The Editor, at 6:22 PM
I agree wholeheartedly. I read Sullivan's comments earlier today and also thought they were off-base and moronic.
This is the same Andrew Sullivan who was crying and screaming that Dick Cheney and the Bush Campaign are ashamed of Mary Cheney because she didn't welcome them on the convention stage after Bush's speech. I e-mailed Andrew, with no response of course, telling him he is jumping to conclusions and for all we know, it could have been Mary's decision. And what d'ya know? It has come out since that it WAS Mary Cheney's decision not to join her father on stage at the Republican National Convention.
Sullivan was wrong then, he's wrong now. And the fact that he excuses a campaign who takes part in dishonest and pathetic tactics such as this, trying to attract (homophobic) voters on the sole basis of Cheney having a lesbian daughter, is sad.
By Jon G, at 7:57 PM
I disagree that Kerry did a bad thing to the Cheneys. Just apply logic. Did he "out" anyone? No. Did he say something bad about Mary Cheney? No, he supported her and her family. Was his example out of context? No, he was asked if he thought homosexuality was a choice. Did he humanize the topic with an example everyone could recognize? Yes, that's what campaigners do all the time. In the first debate, Bush mentioned a woman and her son who had lost their husband/father in Iraq. Was that a "low blow?" Of course not. Andrew Sullivan, like a lot of my gay friends, points out that you have to believe homosexuality is bad in order to take offense at the mention of a lesbian daughter. The hypocrisy of the Cheneys is multifold. Dick THANKED John Edwards last week for bringing up his daughter Mary. Lynne declined to say anything against Alan Keyes when she was asked about his direct insult against Mary for being a "selfish hedonist" for her gayness. But if a Democrat says something good about Mary it's "tawdry" and "cheap." A republican candidate directly attacks Mary and...cricket sounds...more cricket sounds. Let's not for a nanosecond believe the Cheney "outrage" here. It's they who are using their daughter to attack someone. They really don't have anything else after this series of debates.
By Anonymous, at 8:49 PM
He's not gullible, at first at least. He's DELUSIONAL. That makes him gulllible.
By the UNPOPULIST, at 9:00 PM
Well, I suppose a crappy defense (see above comment by another anonymous) is marginally better than no defense of such a transparently noxious ploy. No, wait. It isn't. This is the sort of person I would expect to to defend the Menendez brothers of the offense of murdering their parents with a shotgun by pointing out that they are orphans. Enabler is much to mild a term.
JorgXMcKie
By Anonymous, at 9:16 PM
Well you can throw insults around, but that's not quite the same as a good argument. How on earth is me defending Kerry's statement of support for Cheney's daughter the same as someone defending the Menendez brothers' murdering their parents?
By Anonymous, at 9:51 PM
I don't even think this is really a gay issue. The easiest description of what Kerry did is: "lack of class." You don't talk about your opponents' kids. Period.
If one of Kerry's daughters had been in the National Guard and served in Iraq, Bush would be class-less to bring up some point about "Kerry not supporting the war his daughter fought in."
You just don't talk about your opponents' kids. It's that simple.
Kerry came across as a loser not because he brought up Mary Cheney's sexuality, but because he brought up Mary Cheney.
By Anonymous, at 9:59 PM
http://www.salon.com/opinion/feature/2004/10/15/mary_cheney/index.html
Perfect summation.
By Anonymous, at 10:38 PM
Sullivan will never see this as a violation of the unspoken command not to drag families through the mud. He will never see it as a gratuitous attempt to stoke hatrid amongst the apparrently rabid homophobes that all Republicans supposedly are.
Sullivan will only see the offense among Americans reacting to this as secret shame for Cheney. That's the reaction that Mrs. Edwards had, and Sullivan will see it no other way. He's too wedded to the hope of a Kerry Presidency bringing gay marriage. And he's got an implicit bias to beat the "victimization" drum for all its worth.
Lesson #1: When it comes to gay politics, never look to Sullivan as your guide.
By Anonymous, at 11:24 PM
Yeah, it's not like conservatives would EVER pick on the children of liberal politicians, huh?
http://www.nationalreview.com/derbyshire/derbyshire021501.shtml
By Anonymous, at 3:48 AM
I must have missed the announcement, Anonymous; what office is John Derbyshire running for again?
By Drivel, at 5:41 AM
Aw, Drivel!
You ruined that poor poster's point. After he spent hours googling Chelsea Clinton and thought he had you.
How dare you point out the difference between a private citizen's opinion and a statement by someone running for the highest office in the land.
By Anonymous, at 5:58 AM
It's really quite simple.
Andrew Sullivan as a gay male is not going to understand that this whole cheney's daughter thing is about being a parent and only marginally about someone being gay...
EVERYBODY who is a parent gets it....andrew does not and is incapable of getting it..dems took a calculated risk and it is KILLING them...
i am for bush, i talk to people all day about the elections on both sides...i haven't talked to ONE person who doesnt agree that at BEST it was creepy to bring up Mary Cheney and at worst vicious..
just my 2 cents
Ken
By Anonymous, at 6:29 AM
Kerry should not have made the response personal. He could easily have responded that "many homosexuals" think is not a choice, but then again some do as Elizabeth Edwards said "sexual Preference" not "sexual orientation", did anyone pick up on that nuance in her thinking. oopps! Karry also could have said "my good friend Barney Frank" or have invoked the name of McGreevy..but his clear intent was to use Mary Cheney for a political wedge.Admit it. And then for Elizabeth to say that the Cheney's are ashamed of their daughter was even more despicable..they just don't get it.
By vanderwall7, at 7:25 AM
So, let me get this straight. Alan Keyes, running for a high-ranking public office, gets to call Mary Cheney a "selfish hedonist" because she's gay and that's just fine because he's a Republican. John Kerry, running for a high-ranking public office, cannot compliment the Cheney family for how they've handled having a gay daughter because he's a Democrat. Must be that "fair and balanced" idea Fox News keeps talking about.
Call me crazy, but I interpreted Kerry's remark to mean that if being gay was just a "choice" then there was no way in hell Mary would be gay, considering her family. Yet, there she is, so the issue must be more complicated than some conservatives want to admit. Kerry may have meant otherwise, but I think my interpretation is perfectly valid on its face.
And while we're on the subject, I think both parties are more than happy to use proxies to do (and say) their dirty work. Just because Kerry, Edwards, Bush, or Cheney don't specifically say something doesn't mean it's not the platform or (un)official policy of their respective party. A pox on both their houses!
Peter
By Anonymous, at 7:44 AM
The difference would be that Alan Keyes is a walking, talking buttock, from whom fairly few people take anything seriously, running in a senate race he has no hopes of winning.
Kerry, on the other hand, is a serious contender on a global stage, and should know better than to reference someone else's daughter (or mom or cousin or auntie) in a big-time debate he's trying to ace. It was the political equivalent of a "Yo momma!"
And that's jus' not cool.
By Anonymous, at 7:56 AM
"So, let me get this straight. Alan Keyes, running for a high-ranking public office, gets to call Mary Cheney a "selfish hedonist" because she's gay and that's just fine because he's a Republican"
No, annonymous, it's NOT just fine for Keyes to make comments of that nature, no matter what party he's running for. Keyes' candidacy is rapidly becoming an embarassment for conservatives, and that comment shows why.
Keyes has no right to judge Mary Cheney, as a Catholic, he should know that. As for Kerry, he ought not to bring the children of his opponent into the debate. This isn't a question of privacy, just of basic decency.
By togorman, at 8:00 AM
This "walking, talking buttock" you speak of was nominated by one of the two dominant political parties in the United States to represent a large Midwestern state. We're not talking about the election of the local PTA board here. It’s either acceptable to drag gay family members of candidates into the political discussion or it's not. Your answer to this question should apply to both major parties.
Peter
By Anonymous, at 8:18 AM
Keyes' blather about Mary Cheney was immediately denounced by the same Illinois Republicans who foolishly gave him the Senate nomination, and they did so on the same grounds as Kerry/Edwards are being criticized.
Not a single prominent member of the Illinois GOP defended him, AFAIK.
Mike Peck
By Anonymous, at 8:43 AM
The point that was being made about Keyes was that the Cheney's are not offended, they are using this as a political opportunity to bash Kerry. If they were offended at the mention of their daughter they would have responded to Keyes insult, which they didn't, or they would have responded to Edwards comment, which they didn't. Are you under the impression that Cheney is shy about taking an opponent to task in a debate for an offense. Why didn't Cheney jump on Edwards? Why did he thank him? Why didn't Lynne Cheney call Keyes "not a good man"? Why did she remain silent? Until some right wing nut job can answer those questions, there has to be an assumption of hypocrisy and political opportunism on the part of the Cheneys.
James Roe
By Anonymous, at 9:20 AM
I keeep hearing people say Mary Cheney was being "dragged through the mud." What mud is she being dragged through? Unless you think there is something wrong with being gay, mentioning someone's sexuality isn't an insult.
I'll use one of Andrew Sullivan's ponts. If the Republican president was for a ban on inter-racial marriage and his vice president's daughter was in a relationship with a black man, don't you think it would be worthwhile to point out the mind-numbing hypocrisy of that position. Wouldn't it be worthwhile to point out that the president's own vice-president disagreed with him on that ban? And that he disagreed because of his daughter's relationship.
The difference between this and what the Republican bigots did to McCain in SC, is that there is an issue at stake which effects real people. It's worth reminding the public of that.
Harry
By Anonymous, at 9:25 AM
Harry: That particular point of Sullivan's is possibly his weakest (of a weak lot). Sen. Kerry takes pains to make clear that he and the President have the exact same position on gay marriage. So Sen. Kerry is not a hypocrite, mind-numbing or otherwise, for opposing gay marriage because neither his nor his running mate's children are in a gay relationship?
It doesn't work. Kerry and Edwards are not "exposing hypocrisy" -- unless they're also exposing their own. "The President favors a ban on gay marriage even though his Vice President's daughter is in a gay relationship! I oppose gay marriage because everyone in my family is straight! I'm your man!"
Not even Sen. Kerry could find a nuance in that nonsense. It's a political cheap shot. I wish this wasn't what everyone took out of that debate -- I'd rather it were the creepy deathbed conversation with Mrs. Forbes. The guy was campaigning for President at his mother's deathbed? And she had to remind him three times to have integrity? But you can't always get what you want, I suppose.
By Anonymous, at 9:56 AM
****"The difference between this and what the Republican bigots did to McCain in SC, is that there is an issue at stake which effects real people. It's worth reminding the public of that."*****
Well, Harry, at least you (and Sullivan) are up front in noting that "the difference" is that the political policy that you want to REALLY, REALLY emphasize is involved, and so it's quite okay to do what those "bigots" did.
As always, it depends on whose ox is being goured.
I recall when consistency was a virtue.
By Anonymous, at 10:04 AM
Thanks for that clip!! I'm still laughing. Sullivan has to be upside down and backwards not to "get it."
By PatCA, at 10:08 AM
i haven't read everyone else's responses, so mine may very well be redundant. i hope it is, in fact, since it is so obvious.
i'm perfectly willing to assume/admit that kerry and edwards' debate mentions of mary cheney are completely calculated, overtly strategic. but i think you obviously mischaracterize the strategy.
it's not a play for homophobic votes; it's not a GOTV effort aimed at all those fence-sitting social conservatives. it's not an effort to win votes away from bush's base -- they're not hoping to convince those who support the fma and oppose civil unions to vote against the ticket that has "gay blood".
they're trying to suppress the homophobic vote. to whatever extent anyone's worried about "gay blood" in the family of the vice president, they don't need to vote. to whatever extent it's troubling to a member of bush's religious right base that cheney's having a gay daughter leads him to have a more moderate stance on their pet policy than the president's adopted on behalf of the administration, then let that wingnut stay at home. to the extent that it makes any conservative who will still vote bush regardless just think "eww," thereby lessening his or her enthusiasm for the GOP ticket by whatever measure, great.
you seem to endorse the idea that pandering to an irrationally anti-gay electorate is wrong or unethical. what say you on bush's pro-fma position? or is it only wrong to "gay-bait" (whatever that means) when it involves a member of the family?
By Anonymous, at 10:19 AM
The Bush and Kerry position are remarkably different. Wanting there to be a constitutional ban on gay marriage and opposing a constitutional ban is not a trival distinction. For starters, Kerry is on the conservative side of this one when it comes to questions of federalism.
As for the previous comment what public policy was being explicated when bush operatives called around to conservatives in south carolina to say McCain had a "black child". Was there some debate going on about whether it is ok to adopt children from impoverished foriegn countries? The differences between the hate monger done by the bush campaign on McCain and Kerry's comment was that it was a personal account that had implications for a public policy debate.
In this comparison there is only one ox being gored.
By Anonymous, at 10:25 AM
My question. And people are free to offer their opinions on this....where is Mary Cheney? Is she offended? Doesn't anybody think it's weird that she hasn't released a statement or given an interview or made any comment about this at all.
By Anonymous, at 10:26 AM
Well, my flaming gay boss thought that was fair game, doesn't feel it's "gay baiting" in the least. Of course he's a member of MoveOn and a rabid anti-bush "supporter", so, feh.
By Mike, at 11:17 AM
great comments but just a minor observation: I'd say that the intent of the Democrats is not to "turn out" the "bigot vote", since they would probably never vote for Kedwards anyway. ISNT THE OBVIOUS ATTEMPT TO DISCOURAGE THE "BIGOT VOTE" FROM VOTING FOR BUSH? So your a conservative bigot who would probably vote for Bush/Cheney -- you might as well stay home, how can you vote for someone with a gay child???
By Anonymous, at 12:07 PM
Let's be clear - this is completely different than the Bush operatives "black child" whispering that went on in 2000 to smear McCain. Why? Look at the implication - that the "black" child is McCain's biological child he obciously had extramaritaly or before his current wife in an inter-racial coupling, and is trying to keep it quiet. Yes, that was the message, anc compeltely false. If they had told the truth "McCain adopted a bangledeshi girl", would anyone be offended? No. Infact, to me, it makes McCain seem very comitted to family values and compassionate. How you people can distort Kerry's words to this extent is beyond comprehension.
By Anonymous, at 12:11 PM
look, i agree that it was calculated to mention mary cheney. kerry could have personalized the issue, if that was his intention, by mentioning gephardt's daughter, or gay members of his own family, or gay members of congress...so yeah, politics were at play in mentioning her name. but what is up with all these references from the outraged to parental rights and the parent-child relationship ? mary cheney is an adult, not a 10-year old. she has worked as the gay liason for coors brewing and as an advocate-of-sorts for gay issues in the republican party. she doesn't hide her sexuality. so, why doesn't she have anything to say for herself since she has been catapulted into the national discussion ? why are mommy and daddy speaking for her ?? and why are so many acting like she is some poor delicate flower who's been done wrong by someone stating the simple, evident fact that she's gay ?
By Anonymous, at 8:47 PM
http://newsfly.org/media/gaydaughter.htm - more video and reaction to this stupid stupid disgusting comment
By Anonymous, at 11:58 PM
In exploring this issue, please keep in mind the following points, culled from many of the comments above, with my own additional commentary, to the effect that Kerry's and Edward's comments about Mary Cheney were not only OK, they were appropriate and positive -
from "Harry's" comment, above -
I keep hearing people say Mary Cheney was being "dragged through the mud." What mud is she being dragged through? Unless you think there is something wrong with being gay, mentioning someone's sexuality isn't an insult.
I'll use one of Andrew Sullivan's points. If the Republican president was for a ban on inter-racial marriage and his vice president's daughter was in a relationship with a black man, don't you think it would be worthwhile to point out the mind-numbing hypocrisy of that position. Wouldn't it be worthwhile to point out that the president's own vice-president disagreed with him on that ban? And that he disagreed because of his daughter's relationship.
The difference between this and what the Republican bigots did to McCain in SC, is that there is an issue at stake which effects real people. It's worth reminding the public of that.
Harry
...
When this point was challenged by another comment, suggesting it doesn't apply because Kerry's position on gay marriage is supposedly the same as Bush's, another poster replies -
The Bush and Kerry position are remarkably different. Wanting there to be a constitutional ban on gay marriage and opposing a constitutional ban is not a trivial distinction. For starters, Kerry is on the conservative side of this one when it comes to questions of federalism.
...
Kerry would also grant all the state and federal benefits of marriage to gays and lesbians in civil unions or domestic partnerships, so again, his position is vastly different - and more positive - than Bush's. To point out that the Cheney's have a gay daughter, deserving of such rights, but denied them by the Bush/Cheney ticket and GOP platform, makes bringing her into the discussion not only OK, but important and helpful, both in personalizing the need for such respect and dignity that comes with recognition and rights, and in exposing the hypocrisy of "loving our gay daughter" but working against her interests at the same time.
Other comments relating to bringing in Chelsea Clinton, or the smears by Bush, et al against McCain in the last election, don't apply, as suggested by the following comment -
As for the previous comment what public policy was being explicated when bush operatives called around to conservatives in South Carolina to say McCain had a "black child". Was there some debate going on about whether it is OK to adopt children from impoverished foreign countries? The differences between the hate monger done by the bush campaign on McCain and Kerry's comment was that it was a personal account that had implications for a public policy debate.
...
And, last but not least, another poster points out -
Mary Cheney is an adult, not a 10-year old. She has worked as the gay liaison for Coors brewing and as an advocate-of-sorts for gay issues in the republican party. she doesn't hide her sexuality.
...
Not only does she not hide her sexual orientation, she uses it in attempts to sway gay voters to vote republican, and she and her father have used it in public attempts to "soften" the face of the Republican party (an undeserved softening, much like the Orwellian "compassionate conservatism." She is also a lead director and advisor of her father's campaign, Ina role that puts her - and the extent to which her life mirrors the values supported or denied in the GOP platform - in a public, not private, light.
By Anonymous, at 1:19 AM
After first Edwards and then Kerry brought up Mary Cheney in televised debates, each time specifying that she was lesbian, my first assumption was that their intent was to de-energize a part of the Republican base. This seemed logical, although probably not in reality very effective because evangelical Christians et al aren't as stupid as many Democrats think they are.
However, I then watched Hannity and Colmes on my favorite right-wing television network, Fox News Channel. Their guest was former Democrat operative and pollster Pat Caddell. Caddell argued that the reason for twice bringing up Cheney's daughter was in fact to energize parts of the Democrat base -- specifically, blacks, the poor, and people over 65. These groups don't like homosexuality and aren't as enthusiastic about this year's Democratic ticket as they might be. I was skeptical at first, but the more I think about it, the more I think he might be right.
By Anonymous, at 4:44 AM
It's too fine a point to put on it, but two people have dusted me up for saying that Kerry's position on gay marriage is the same as the President's. Kerry told this to the New York Times in no uncertain terms. (Google it or you can find it on Instapundit, I don't have the link, though I've read the story.)
What is "hypocritical" about opposing gay marriage when the Vice President's daughter is gay? Does Mary Cheney want marry her partner? (I really don't know.) Does Cheney want his daughter to be able to marry her partner but no other gay person anywhere to be able to marry theirs? That's hypocrisy. But that's not what's going on.
Endorsing a codification of marriage as being between a man and a woman is not "hypocritical" simply because one (or one's running mate) has a gay child. If a family member of John Edwards' were gay, would John Kerry be a hypocrite for opposing same sex marriage? It just defies logic.
It staggers me how infrequently it's brought up, by the way, that no state in this great union has a single law that prevents gay people from getting married. Not one. You can't "marry" someone of the same sex, but give me one instance in which someone has been denied a marriage license because of his or her sexual orientation (and not because what they were trying to do was not to "marry" under the law) and I'll march with you to the offending state's capital.
By Anonymous, at 12:37 PM
If John Kerry wanted to make the point that Bush and Cheney have differing positions on gay marriage, he could have done it without bringing up Mary Cheney. If he was really making the point that he feels homosexuality is not a choice, he could have done that without bringing up Mary Cheney. He could have talked about gay people that he knows if he wanted to "personalize" the issue.
What he did was the equivalent of asking Michael Dukakis if he would still be against the death penalty if his wife (KITTY DUKAKIS!!!) was raped and murdered and cut into tiny pieces that the dogs ate and the murderer masturbated over etc etc etc. It isn't "outing" her and it's not taking a "cheap shot". It's more like "rape" (or "violation" if you want to be a literalist). It's dirty pool and it wasn't classy and there's no way to make an argument that Kerry was trying to be a classy guy.
Intimidator of Mobs
By Anonymous, at 1:33 PM
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