The Daily Recycler

Friday, September 10, 2004

Bombshell Spectator Post

The Spectator's website is down because of Drudge's link.. But Freepers have a cached version, and are discussing this post here. Since the Daily Recycler tries to be a political TIVO.. we'll repost it here, too.

Anatomy of a Forgery
By The Prowler

Published 9/10/2004 12:09:06 AM


More than six weeks ago, an opposition research staffer for the Democratic National Committee received documents purportedly written by President George W. Bush's Texas Air National Guard squadron commander, the late Col. Jerry Killian.

The oppo researcher claimed the source was "a retired military officer." According to a DNC staffer, the documents were seen by both senior staff members at the DNC, as well as the Kerry campaign.

"More than a couple people heard about the papers," says the DNC staffer. "I've heard that they ended up with the Kerry campaign, for them to decide to how to proceed, and presumably they were handed over to 60 Minutes, which used them the other night. But I know this much. When there was discussion here, there were doubts raised about their authenticity."

The concerns arose from the sourcing. "It wasn't clear that our source for the documents would have had access to them. Our person couldn't confirm from what file, from what original source they came from."

The documents that CBS News used were not documents from any of Bush's personnel files from his time in the National Guard. Rather, CBS News stated that they were documents uncovered in the personnel files of Killian. That would explain why the White House or the Pentagon had never before released or even seen them.

According to a Kerry campaign source, there was little gossip about the supposedly hot documents inside the office of the campaign on McPherson Square. "Those documents were not something anyone was talking about or trying to generate buzz on," says the staffer. "It wasn't like there were small groups of people talking about this as a bombshell. I think people here weren't sure what to make of it, because provenance of these documents was uncertain."

A CBS producer, who initially tipped off The Prowler about the 60 Minutes story, says that despite seeking professional assurances that the documents were legitimate, there was uncertainty even among the group of producers and researchers working on the story.

"The problem was we had one set of documents from Bush's file that had Killian calling Bush 'an exceptionally fine young officer and pilot.' And someone who Killian said 'performed in an outstanding manner.' Then you have these new documents and the tone and content are so different."

The CBS producer said that some alarms bells went off last week when the signatures and initials of Killian on the documents in hand did not match up with other documents available on the public record, but producers chose to move ahead with the story. "This was too hot not to push. If there were doubts, those people didn't show it," says the producer, who works on a rival CBS News program.

Now, the producer says, there is growing concern inside the building on 57th Street that they may have been suckered by the Kerry campaign. "There is a school of thought here that the Kerry people dumped this in our laps, figuring we'd do the heavy lifting on the story. That maybe they had doubts about these documents but hoped we'd get more information," says the producer. "If that's the case, then we're bigger fools than we already appear to be judging by all the chatter about how these documents could be forgeries."

ABC News' political unit held a conference call at 7:00 p.m. Thursday evening to discuss the memo and its potential ramifications should the documents turn out to be a forgery. That meeting took place around the time that the deceased Killian's son made public statements questioning the documents' authenticity.

According to one ABC News employee, some reporters believe that the Kerry campaign as well as the DNC were parties in duping CBS, but a smaller segment believe that both the DNC and the Kerry campaign were duped by Karl Rove, who would have engineered the flap to embarrass the opposition.

The original post at the Spectator site is down as of 5:30AM PST

99 Comments:

  • Rather is not just carrying water for the Kerry campaign. He is falling on his sword for the Kerry campaign.

    - Amphipolis

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 5:52 AM  

  • Kerry supporter here...

    I'm crying.

    I can't believe they'd do this.

    If this is true then it's over.

    -Alex P.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 5:55 AM  

  • DRUDGE took down POWERLINEBLOG yesterday too. He's the kid who doesn't know how strong he is.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 5:58 AM  

  • blogosphere one step ahead of major media: already moved past the issue of whether or not its forged and are on to who done it. it's exciting to watch this unravel from the perspective of a blog reader who also is a bona fide news junkie.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 6:00 AM  

  • "a smaller segment believe that both the DNC and the Kerry campaign were duped by Karl Rove"

    If this is true:

    (1) Kerry is to stupid to be President. If he could be sucker punched this bad I don't want him going head-to-head with terrorist and tyrants.

    (2) Rove should be fired as Bush's campaign manager and immediately rehired as Director of the CIA. That kind of effective deviousness is hard to find.

    I think however, this will turn out to be wishful thinking clouding peoples judgment not any grand conspiracy.

    By Blogger Shannon Love, at 6:07 AM  

  • "... too hot not to push."

    That says it all. If its hot enough accuracy doesn't matter to CBS.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 6:37 AM  

  • I have written to CBS News calling for the firing of Dan Rather and all persons responsible for this grevious error in judgement. I am also calling for a nation-wide boycott of CBS News and its owned and operated stations until those responsible are terminated and they apologize to President Bush and his family.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 6:43 AM  

  • How about they run Stolen Honor on all their station every night for a week?

    http://www.stolenhonor.com

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 6:46 AM  

  • Karl Rove would have to be crazy to take the risk of connecting the President to document forgery. Nor is such a desperate act warranted. Senator Kerry gives Rove fresh matter daily with which to destroy his candidacy, so Rove doesn't need to commit any crimes.

    By Blogger Doug, at 6:55 AM  

  • This CAN'T be true! Everyone knows Bush Lied, Men Died, and Dan Rather can be trusted to give us the Truth. Michael Moore says so, dadblastit.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 6:59 AM  

  • Duty, honor, jawbone. It's amazing that so many people have so much time to bloviate. Dubya and JforbesK are idiots, but the headchoppers are coming for us. I support the meanest idiot...Go, fight, win...

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 7:08 AM  

  • Someone please explain the rationale for the Kerry campaign purposely embarassing CBS and/or Dan Rather?

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 7:12 AM  

  • Seems oddly quick that everybody in the world is so sure that these are forgeries. All these experts emerge by Thursday after the documents are released Wednesday? If there's no truth to them, why doesn't the Bush administration just say so? Are they both accurate and forgeries? Somebody is getting played by Karl Rove. I wonder who if it's them or us.
    But all you Kerry pansies out there who scream and run when you catch sight of opposition, TOUGHEN UP. There is still not a single reason to elect Bush and you know it. These guys play dirty and we knew that. "If this is true then it's over." Disgusting.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 7:15 AM  

  • Consider the idea of some intelligent over-eager junior staffer or volunteer that forgets (or doesn't know) that such documents couldn't be generated in 1972/73. Seeing his/her first campaign going down in flames via SwiftVets to an obvious idiot from Texas, he/she pieces together these memos from all available information, adding fictitious embarrassing details previously missing. Claims "someone" dropped them off.

    A real Donald Segretti wanabee.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 7:26 AM  

  • HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

    Rather and CBS took the bait and got screwed. I'll be laughing my arse off if Kerry's team fed them this document without warning - think the media won't turn on him then? I feel like a kid in the movies with a huge tub of popcorn watching the blogosphere tear this one up. Yum! More butter please.

    I can't decide who the bigger buffoon is - Kerry or Rather, who's become the "Geraldo" of the old school media.

    Courage, Dan, courage...:)

    By Blogger David, at 7:28 AM  

  • It's time to clean out the old guard in the broadcast networks. Dan Rather and his 1960s wannabe-revolutionary ilk should all be fired and put out to pasture. Their socialist-inspired fantasies have distorted politics in this country for far too long. Time for a new generation to take over the old media dinosaurs and break their grip on propaganda news.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 7:35 AM  

  • Why do many think the memos are forgeries?

    First, it is realistically impossible that they were created with the technology available at the time to the TANG (at best Selectrics, probably older typewriters). They have modern proportional fonts, kerning, and smaller font subscripted "th" after numbers - all standard features of modern Word, etc., but not available back then. Also, word placement on page works out exactly as if standard Word defaults used.

    Secondly, both widowed wife and son have stated that this would have been significantly out of character for the officer supposedly writing the memos.

    By Blogger Bruce Hayden, at 7:41 AM  

  • Disgusting? Possibly? Watching Kerry supporters scream "RUN AWAY!" like Monty Python? Hilarious. November 3rd when Bush is re-elected? Glorious!

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 7:45 AM  

  • I am a former USAF and USAF Reserve offcier (1976-1990). I was skeptical at first that the docs were faked. After all, CBS and 60 Minutes have been around a long time. Still, I checked out the docs on CBS's website.

    One look confirmed to me they were fakes. I can't testify to fonts and spacing, but these simply do not appear to have been written by an Air Force officer. There is no such doc as a "personal memo." There is AF memo stationary, why wasn't is used? The date is the wrong format, there is no letter head, they are on personal rather than govt. stationary, none of them are on an AF form, the signature block on one reads "Commander" with no unit designation, the address of the FI Wing is given as a PO Box.

    How could CBS have missed all of this?

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 7:46 AM  

  • I havn't watched ABC, CBS, or NBC for over 5 years. This is the only thing they understand.

    Thank God for FNC

    By Blogger uss_power, at 7:47 AM  

  • So the Kerry camp had intelligence about their enemy that they were privately questioning, but decided to use anyway? This is all depressingly familiar to the way Bush led us up to war with Iraq.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 7:48 AM  

  • WHATS THE FREQUENCY THIS TIME KENNETH???????

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 7:53 AM  

  • Oh pulleeeze. Your lame attempt at moral equivalency won't fly. Your man is toast--he's a fraud, a phony, an egotistical elitist who's goin' down in flames on Nov. 2nd. The only question is if CBS will allow itself to be dragged down with him.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 7:57 AM  

  • Its time to give Kerry and Edwards coconut shell halves and let them ride off into the sunset

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 8:03 AM  

  • Damn, Kerry shot himself in the butt again. We just stopped talking about the Swift Boat storm and now we got the Kerry is a forger storm. Who is running that damn campaign? Urkel?

    Read John Kerry's anti-American book The New Soldier and 4 chapters of Unfit For Command online for free

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 8:05 AM  

  • Did anyone out there have the following initial reaction when this story broke: "Oh, Kerry/Democrats would not do this"? Doubt it.

    Democrat history, Bush hatred and election panic created the "perfect storm" for this disaster (from Kerry's/CBS'point of view). Certainly it is possible that (1) the documents will be found to be real; (2) that Rove is behind the documents. Anyone want to put up pinkslips?

    Let's see: "60 Minutes" is discredited (don't forget, Killian's son and wife also claim the documents are forgeries); Kitty Litter's book is discredited (Sharon Bush denies the cocaine use claim); polls are moving for Bush (including important leadership and character dimensions); Economy is positive; Kerry can't/won't get off the Vietnam topic . . . I love to watch this!

    Thank God for the Blogosphere. Just think if the Blogosphere were in force in 1992 when Don Hewitt of "60 Minutes" saved Clinton's bacon. A perfect example of Old Media behind the curve, operating from an out-moded model.

    By Blogger DocC, at 8:06 AM  

  • IT IS BECOMING CLEAR THAT the people in charge of the Democratic party are way too moronic to run the world's only superpower. When they are not fighting to keep poor kids stuck in horrid schools, they put out forged documents besmirching the president. When they are not coddling terrorist thugs, they are stealing classified documents which might reveal their coddling. Opposed to all uses of force in defense of freedom, they have nominated a war protester who gamed the system to get 3 purple hearts without actually being injured. One word: PATHETIC.

    By Blogger MAconservative, at 8:08 AM  

  • "Someone please explain the rationale for the Kerry campaign purposely embarassing CBS and/or Dan Rather?"

    [Assuming a Democrat was the source]:

    - I don't think exposing Rather as a fool was the purpose. Instead, if the Kerry folks were unsure of the authenticity, they could get Rather to either:

    (A) Do his homework, discover the fraud, and decline to run the story. Kerry camp wins by not having to spend time and manpower running it down themselves.

    -or-

    (B) More likely, Rather'd see it as a too-good-to-miss opportunity, and air it because (1) it confirms his opinions about Bush, so he's inclinde to presume the docs are genuine; and (2) he's so desperate to find something to hurt Bush with that in the end he doesn't care anymore whether it's true or false. Kerry camp wins, because Rather takes the fall - on his sword (i.e., doesn't rat out the source).

    It's a gamble ... but when the ship's sinking, minds become more open to crazy ideas.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 8:13 AM  

  • It will be VERY interesting to see to what lengths the
    "mainstream" media will pursue the forgery angle of this
    story. Will they assign reporters to find out where these documents really came from? Or will they just mention it on a few newscasts, and then try to conveniently let it die away?

    Ask yourself this: how would the NY Times, Washington Post, NBC, ABC, CBS, and NPR respond to strong allegations that anti-Kerry documents were forged??? Can you imagine? How the media responds to this story will show a lot about what agenda they're pushing.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 8:30 AM  

  • I have been a Kerry supporter and volunteer and have dedicated many hours to this man's election. However, if this story proves to be true I am finished with him.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 8:38 AM  

  • CBS wouldn't go with the Swift Boat Vets story because 200+ Swiftees with signed depositions was not enough to ensure the story was legitimate, but since the Killian memos were HOT it was a go. But don't forget we were warned by Susan Estrich that this was coming in her column "Lies move Democrats to dig up dirt"

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 8:46 AM  

  • Kerry served in Vietnam. Bush did not. Everything else is a smokescreen to obscure important issues such as the waste of Clinton's balanced budget due to unnecessary tax cuts and poor fiscal management, the dying middle class, the mess of public education, our miserable health care system, the poor intelligence (problem for all administrations -- not just Bush II) that led us to war, our increasingly violent and dangerous world, the rape of the environment

    and on and on and on

    Let's all get a life. The media sucks (all of it) and doesn't do its job. Political campaigns play dirty and the Republicans are far better at it than the Dems. But WHO is competent to really help Americans? Or is the system just too FU**ED to help any of us???

    In any event -- I'm voting for Kerry. The lesser of two evils.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 9:03 AM  

  • My 2 cents:
    Didn't Mr. Kerry ask for Bill's help?
    Since the 'Clinton Clan' stands to gain from a Kerry loss perhaps the focus should be on them.

    By Blogger LAX_Larry, at 9:18 AM  

  • Well, we all know what the "F" stands for in John F. Kerry's name, now, don't we?

    FORGERY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    (Just a little comeback on Kerry's "W" references)

    By Blogger happykappy, at 9:31 AM  

  • CBS is owned by Viacom. If you own shares, or your pension plan does, or you think MAYBE your broker does, why not contact their corporate shareholder relations department and express your dismay at how they are diluting the value of your company with such disreputable behavior in their CBS division?

    FROM THEIR WEBSITE:
    "If you have any shareholder-related questions, please contact Viacom's Investor Relations Department at 1-800-516-4399."

    Another way to reach Viacom is via their non-management directors, people charged by the SEC with stewardship of the assets of stockholders even when management disagrees with what that means. Here, again from Viacom's website, is the contact info:

    "mNon-Management Directors Contact
    If you would like to contact Viacom's non-management directors, you may send an e-mail to nonmanagementdirectors@viacom.com or write to: Viacom Inc., 1515 Broadway, New York, NY 10036-5794, Attention Non-Management Directors -- 52nd Floor."

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 9:45 AM  

  • Dan Rather: "I don't understand...I got these memos from my intern, Jason Blair..."

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 9:46 AM  

  • That bit about Karl Rove engineering this sounds a lot like the Arabs complaining that the Jews are behind Islamist terrorism just to make the Muslims look bad.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 9:52 AM  

  • Bush's new campain Slogan......


    John **F*** Kerry



    The F stands for FORGERY!!!

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 9:58 AM  

  • DNC and CBS set up Kerry campaign? It's unlikely Rather will fall on his sword for Kerry, if Kerry set up CBS, but what if it's the other way around? Kerry was set up? And specualtion by the ones setting him up that he was setting them up makes a wonderful smokescreen defense. Of course, the only flaw with this logic is why would the DNC (and CBS) not want Kerry to win in 2004? His loss this year would make it impossible for him to coast to re-election in 2008. Then would would they find to run?

    By Blogger nhkitt, at 10:09 AM  

  • Anyone notice how MSN ran the report on the 60 minutes story under the heading that went something like "Bush's National Guard Furor" (can't remember exact wording but the word "Furor" was definitely there) it was obviously written before the forgery allegations surfaced and probably resulted from the MSN bosses anticipated glee at the reaction they hoped would flow from Dan Rather's attack on Bush...

    Now how about some "Furor" over the exposed one-sided partisanship of CBS and the rest of MSM? At their stupidity? Their obvious desperation to fly anything to take attention away from their man's increasingly pathetic attempts to run on his Vietnam record?

    Now Stephanopolis insinuates that it may all have been a setup - even if that were so it would indicate such stupidity on the part of the Dems that I wouldn't trust any of them to be elected as City Dog-Catcher.

    Then again, maybe its really a plot by Hillary to increase her chances in 2008...???

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 10:23 AM  

  • Hmmmm...

    JFKerry is turning to Slick Willy for help...

    Hillary wants to run in 2008...

    Billy Boy owes Hillary big time for not Bobbiting him over Genifer, Paula, Monica,....

    The Clintons are sneaky, devious, clever....

    If I were Johnny K. I wouldn't trust a single WORD of advice from Billy C.!

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 10:26 AM  

  • It will be interesting to see whether CBS will reveal its source. Lets be honest, there is no question that these documents were from a Democratic source. The only way Rather and CBS run a 60 Minutes special on these documents is if they are wearing viewing them through their rose colored glasses because they were given to them by someone they trusted.

    So the question CBS has to answer is what is more important: its credibility and financial viability or its devotion to the Democratic party? If CBS refuses to reveal its source or points the finger at some bottom rung peon who would never have had access to anyone at CBS, then its credibility is shot for years to come and its advertisers and viewership will evaporate.

    There are number crunchers, businessmen and businesswomen higher up in Viacom and I have to think they will step in and say that CBS is not going to take the fall for Kerry. Moreover, CBS and Rather have been played as fools by the Kerry campaign and there could be some backlash from CBS against the Kerry campaign. We can only hope.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 10:29 AM  

  • The MSM are anti-Bush. That's undisputed. CBS jumped on this without checking further because they got it from their man's campaign. Since Rather continues to "stand behind" his report, CBS should take him off the air pending their investigation, if not outright fire him.
    I was also in the service for 6 years in the 70's... the previous writer is 100% correct. Without re-hashing the parts he pointed out, there are simply too many obvious discrepancies to think this was written by anyone with a military background, never mind written in the 70's. Fox News reported last night that they had a producer re-type the CBS memo in Word... holding copies of each, one over the other, showed they match. I haven't tried it, but doubters should.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 10:34 AM  

  • Why would Kerry campaign have given the memos to CBS?
    1. CBS (and Rather) would run with it being the most anti Bush of the major media, and 2. they didn't expect that CBS would post the pdf files (i.e. they did not think they would get caught).

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 10:49 AM  

  • Call For FCC Investigation

    Michael.Powell@fcc.gov
    fccinfo@fcc.gov

    These are the 2 email addresses (Michael Powell is Chair of the FCC) for anyone who wants to request an investigation of CBS News and Dan Rather for their involvement in attempting to improperly influence the presidential election with fraudulent documents. Also possible illegal campaign in kind contribution.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 10:59 AM  

  • I think you're still missing the point. The DNC gave the memos to the Kerry Campaign who the knew would give to to CBS. When CBS got them and said they look fake (which they did) they bypassed the Kerry Campaign and went straight to the DNC who told them to run them, BUT... making sure CBS leaks that it was the Kerry Campaign who provided them. Dan Rather acts likes he's falling on his sword but he's instead building justification to go after Kerry. And after his heroic & stoic display, the dems won't blame Rather. When all is said and done, Rather&CBS and the Hillary&DNC will be left standing. What's most interesting here is look what democratic strategic Pat Caddell is now saying. Kerry is finished.

    By Blogger nhkitt, at 11:05 AM  

  • One reason why the DNC might be setting up Kerry to be the fall guy for Memo-gate.

    Anybody remember a Senator from New Jersey named Torricelli?

    Lets suppose that Kerry is implicated in Memo-gate, He would of course deny all involvement but may resign as Democratic Cantidate for President 'for the good of the party'. The shuffle to find a new cantidate would leave a wonderfully Hillary sized hole somewhere in the Democratic presidential ticket.

    John B

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 11:09 AM  

  • No, its:

    "What's the frequency KenneTH?"

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 11:24 AM  

  • Kerry was created by the leftist media elites to save the democratic party from destruction with Howlin Howard Dean. How could they miss with one decorated by both sides in the Vietnam War - "electable". Goetterdaemmerung is at hand. How wonderful to see Kerry leading Rather, CBS, NYT and the rest of the leftist slime into the flamming pyre.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 11:31 AM  

  • Thought I'd pass this along: http://defeatjohnjohn.com/ is offering $10,000 to any individual or company that can find a typewriter available in 1972 which could have produced the CBS documents. Payment will be made in the form of a cashiers check to the first individual who can do this. The typewriter must be using the same proportionally spaced font as the CBS documents, the same curly-quotation marks, the same impossible superscripted "th"s, the same 13-point line spacing, and create a document that looks as much (or more) like the alleged forgeries than does a Microsoft Word document with default fonts and margins.

    By Blogger John, at 11:37 AM  

  • Hmmmmmm.....

    Dems want to "Retire W to Texas"

    Maybe it'll be "Dan Rather Biased"

    That will be "Retired" to Texas

    by the CBS Suits....

    Gotta be one bad day at Black Rock.....

    Couldn't happen to a more deserving bunch......

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 11:43 AM  

  • It works both ways Dan.

    http://gopandthecity.blogspot.com/2004/09/dan-rather-exclusive.html

    By Blogger The Man, at 11:49 AM  

  • CBS=CandidateBullShit

    Dan would Rather use his position to dupe people so they follow his political views than be an upstanding reporter. I guess once you achieve the status he has that journalistic integrity can go out the window. Absolutely despicable - all I can say is...

    What's the frequency Kenneth?

    By Blogger Mike, at 12:17 PM  

  • I would have been disappointed if the republican lie machine didn't respond in this manner. Get used to it. It's true, he was AWOL and a big jerk

    http://homepage.mac.com/duffyb/nobush/Menu129.html

    Hey how about Cheney and his eBay comment? What an out of touch asshole!

    By Blogger duffyb, at 12:55 PM  

  • This Forgery scandal only serves to illuminate that the MSM no longer exists. Rather, CBS, NBC, NYT et al can no longer truthfully be considered as the once so-called "mainstream media".
    Instead they all have been exposed as nothing more than the "MEDIAWING of the Kerry Campaign" and should be refered to as such in all future commentaries.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 12:55 PM  

  • "Get used to it. It's true, he was AWOL..."

    Hmmm... based on??? hahaha

    Don't worry, even though you can't support your argument with facts (unforged facts) we feel your pain.

    Oh yes and some good news, we just saved a whole lot of money on car insurance by switching to Geico

    By Blogger nhkitt, at 1:12 PM  

  • Before reading all these comments, I didn't even know about "MSM" as acronym for mainstream media.

    The power of the blogosphere is awesome. The MSM is surely teetering just a bit, and I wonder if today isn't the day that it begins to crash.

    Then we'll have two things to remember on September 11.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 1:39 PM  

  • Reading the pro-Kerry comments is a hoot. As the old country song goes, you have to stand for something or you'll fall for anything. You've been had. Too bad Mr. Intellectual never figured that out.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 2:05 PM  

  • [quote]
    I would have been disappointed if the republican lie machine didn't respond in this manner. Get used to it. It's true, he was AWOL and a big jerk

    http://homepage.mac.com/duffyb/nobush/Menu129.html

    Hey how about Cheney and his eBay comment? What an out of touch asshole!
    [/quote]

    Oooohh!! A half-assed information site from some bloke set up on mac.com no less. I suppose data from some anonymous source -- who doesn't even know enough to get their own domain -- should be trusted over one of the premier blogs in the blogesphere.

    -Spiff

    By Blogger Spiff, at 3:17 PM  

  • duffy b-

    oh yeah - I forgot - Dan Rather is the one who interviewed Slick Willy and thought he was an honest and honorable man...

    duffy - why don't you just join al-qaeda...

    By Blogger Mike, at 3:46 PM  

  • C'mon guys, cut the Kerry supporters some slack. They deserve a little pity, since they've hitched their wagon to such a loser. I'm beginning to wonder if Kerry will even carry Minnesota...

    Even with the MSM in their pocket, the dems can't convince the voters they deserve to be in power. So, they have to lie, cheat, and forge to keep the average voter from looking too closely at their candidate or their real agenda. We need to tell the sinking dems, "we feel your pain..."

    Heh.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 4:10 PM  

  • I watched CBS Evening News tonight. Handwriting expert, not typewriter expert. Th looks different in two documents - two typewriters with th? one National Guard official to support CBS, not several. And he says National Guard is corrupt. Real convincing. Ben Barnes mentioned but not defended. Result: CBS obfuscation, not defense. The documents are forgeries and CBS is toast!

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 4:18 PM  

  • Watched Rather's comments from the street a short while ago and I could see by his face and lack of coherense that he is in extremis. I wish that I really cared!
    He is "sure" that the documents are real, however he is not going to provide the basis for his confidence nor proceed with any further investigation. He said that he had talked to some "other pilots" who had known Bush. He failed to admit that he had already spoken to the wife and adult son of Col. Killean about two weeks before the "60 Minute" farce. They apparently had originally raised doubt as to the validity of the documents and had expressed their reasons.
    Rather does not state just what these "other pilots" would be able to testify to, considering the the age and personal nature of the contents, and the mysterious manner in which they were found. Nor does he appear to give any consideration to the son's statement that his father had told him years before that George Bush had twice volunteered for a year's combat in Vietnam, but that he had turned him down because of his limited flight time.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 5:51 PM  

  • Watched Rather's comments from the street a short while ago and I could see by his face and lack of coherense that he is in extremis. I wish that I really cared!
    He is "sure" that the documents are real, however he is not going to provide the basis for his confidence nor proceed with any further investigation. He said that he had talked to some "other pilots" who had known Bush. He failed to admit that he had already spoken to the wife and adult son of Col. Killean about two weeks before the "60 Minute" farce. They had originally raised doubt as to the validity of the documents and had expressed their reasons.
    Rather does not state just what these "other pilots" would be able to testify to, considering the the age and personal nature of the contents, and the mysterious manner in which they were found. Nor does he appear to give any consideration to the son's statement that his father had told him years before that George Bush was an excellent officer and had twice volunteered for a year's combat in Vietnam, but that he had turned him down because of his limited flight time.
    If I were a betting man I would guess that these "other pilots" might involve Rather, and the entire DNC.
    Considering the timing I'm sure that the new books by Barnes and Kelley will be knockouts.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 6:24 PM  

  • I watched Rather's comments from the street today and I could see by his face and lack of coherense that he is in extremis. I wish that I really cared!
    He is "sure" that the documents are real, however he is not going to provide the basis for his confidence nor proceed with any further investigation. He said that his reprsentative had talked to some "other pilots" who had known Bush. He failed to admit that he had also heard from the wife and adult son of Col. Killean about two weeks before the "60 Minute" farce. They had originally raised doubt as to the validity of the documents and had expressed their reasons.
    Rather does not state just what these "other pilots" would be able to testify to, considering the age and personal nature of the contents. Nor does he appear to give any consideration to the son's statement that his father had told him years before that George Bush was an excellent officer and had twice volunteered for a year's combat in Vietnam, but that he had to turn him down because of Bush's limited flight time. This fact alone would be devastating to the Kerry supporters.
    If I were a betting man, however, I would have to guess that these "other pilots" might involve Rather, and the entire DNC.
    Also, considering the timing, I'm sure that the new books by Barnes and Kelley could be best sellers prior to the election (if they have the nerve to release them.)

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 6:57 PM  

  • That Col Staudt was retired when he was mentioned in the August memo as putting pressure on Killian is a slam dunk that the document is a fake.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 8:24 PM  

  • Here is a site describing the IBM Selectric "Composer" Machine that Dan Rather described. I highly doubt this sophisticated and complicated machine would be found in a national guard office, or would be used by Killean.

    http://www.ibmcomposer.org/SelComposer/description.htm

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 11:42 PM  

  • Someone must have set Kerry up. Kerry had nothing to gain by forging documents and sending them to Rather.

    Clearly, the Clintons are behind it. ^_^ Hilary is looking to run in 2008 and a win for Kerry now would ruin it for her. Kerry went to Bill for advice and Bill delivered big time!

    Think about it. The only way Kerry would have submited the documents to Rather is if he thought they were legit. So, Kerry must have trusted whoever gave him the documents. Otherwise, he would have checked to see if they were legit. They are not legit, therefore he didn't check them, and thus he trusted whoever gave him the documents. To my knowledge, the Clintons are the only ones who have both (1) something to gain and (2) Kerry's trust.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 2:59 AM  

  • Maybe this is still developing. We still don't know who this "retired military officer" is -- that is, the original source of the documents, which is what matters most here. Some people no doubt think he doesn't exist, but why would someone speak anonymously to the Spectator to both implicate the Kerry campaign and say they didn't forge them? Was this a junior staffer who didn't know they were actually cooked up by the DNC? How's that, then? If you think "Clinton did it" or "they're really dumb enough to think those constitute a reliable forgery" are plausible explanations, you're as blinded by partisan bias as the Democrats who still think they're not fake.

    Someone asked why the DNC would want to burn CBS. A possible reason could be that they think the source has ties to the Bush campaign and the only way for that second part of the story to get attention is for CBS to get burned in a big way by the first part of the story.

    If the DNC or Kerry campaign had released the documents themselves, and they were identified as fakes, they could have hardly expected news organizations to look into who suckered them -- that's not a story. Assuming the source's ties to Bush are vague enough that the Kerry campaign wouldn't have been able to produce a smoking gun, their complaints would have fallen on deaf ears. The only headlines would have been "Kerry campaign's memos are fakes."

    The way it's happening, CBS really wants to get to the bottom of the story because they want someone to share the blame with, and all the other media outlets want to get to the bottom of the story because they want to embarrass CBS.

    I mean, what's the alternative? The Democrats gave the documents to CBS but didn't think they would be identified as forgeries? If it was a high-level thing, why not forge them a little better? Risking the detection of a dirty trick is foolish; risking the detection of a forgery that anyone can make in five minutes with MS Word is more than foolish. Did they not think they would be identified as the source? The idea that CBS would find out that they're fake and then take the fall for the Democrats rather than implicate them is ridiculous. CBS may have a bias, sure. But they're not owned by the Democratic party.

    Maybe CBS didn't name the source of the documents because they didn't want to seem like a tool of the Democrats. No media outlet says so when they're using talking points or material they got from a political party. That CBS would trust the DNC and decide the "preponderance of the evidence" about the issue in general suggests the documents are genuine may represent the real bias here.

    Fundamentally, one thing remains true: a good forgery suggests a Democratic dirty trick; a bad forgery (plus obfuscation of the source) suggests a Republican dirty trick.

    This is all pretty speculative. It's hard to confidently make sense of it in any way. But whatever the case, I support Kerry, and I'm still confident enough that I'm happy to see all the Republican eagerness to get to the bottom of it. I hope it keeps up.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 3:56 AM  

  • Ladies and Gentlemen:

    What do you expect from a guy like Dan the Man. In a book by Bernard Goldberg titled "Biased", Rather makes a statement to Goldberg, "he told me how in his younger years he had signed up with the marines - not once but twice." He also states that Rather considers himself "red, white, and blue American, Texan, ex-marine-and-damn-proud-of-it" person. Of course this is poppycock. Dan Rather joined the marines once, but failed to make it through boot camp. As a fomer Marine myself, you never use the term "ex-Marine".

    According to the Book, "Stolen Valor" by B.G. Burkett and Glenna Whitley (1998), I quote fully their conclusions about Rather and his military service: "Rather certainly has experience with the military. During the Korean War, when men could be drafted out of college, Dan Irvin Rather joined the Army Reserves while attending Sam Houston University in Huntsville, Texas, thus avoiding the possibility of being drafted. On graduating in 1954, well after the Korean War was over and the killing had ended, Rather quit the reserves and enlisted in the Marine Corps. (This is the same national broadcaster who, night after night during the 1988 presidential campaign, hammered Republican vice presidential candidate Dan Quayle for avoiding Vietnam by joining the National Guard.) Although the press often refers to Rather as an "ex-Marine", he did not finish Marine recruit training. He joined the Marines on January 22, 1954, but was discharged less than four months later, on May 11, for being medically unfit. (As a boy, Rather had suffered from rheumatic fever.)" Burkett and Whitley obtained service records by filing under the Freedom of Information Act and also give examples of how citizens can do the same thing in their Book.

    Although I somewhat fell sorry for Rather on not making it through boot camp, he laid out a lie about his service and did not have too. Burkett and Whitley expose many of the lies used by people to either lie about their service or over-emphasize the awards they received, such as Kerry most likely did. I will post another message about why I think Kerry fits into Burkett and Whitley's Chapter titled: "The Purple Heart Flea Market" during Vietnam. I shall do this tomorrow.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 12:37 PM  

  • I believe that the documents CBS aired were likely forged, but Prowler's piece here is as mysteriously sourced as CBS's was. Where's the proof, other than what Prowler says? That's a Ratheristic approach, unfortunately.

    By Blogger Nowhining, at 4:50 PM  

  • emailed to: nonmanagementdirectors@viacom.com

    I am writing as one whose pension fund contains shares of Viacom to protest against the dissipation of corporate assets being carried out by the CBS News Division in their reporting on the Bush National Guard documents. In the face of virtually unanimous agreement among document experts (who are allowing their names to be used and not hiding behind "anonymous" attributions) that the documents are forgeries, the CBS News Division has shown a total inability to defend their story. The "defense" of the story by Mr. Rather is laughable and disingenuous on its face.


    While superscripts could have been produced on typewriters in the 70s, these superscripts would have only involved the position of the letters, not their size. So Rather's claim that typewriter's could produce superscripts while technically true is completely besides the point, since those in the questionable documents were true superscripts, both in position and size. One can only conclude that Mr. Rather is quite stupid or is being dishonest - and Mr. Rather is not a stupid man. Mr. Rather's claim that Times Roman has been available since 1931 totally ignores the question of whether it was available on *typewriters*. Experts have said that it was not. So Rather's claim that Times Roman has been available since 1931, while technically true, is completely besides the point. One can only conclude that Mr. Rather is quite stupid or is being dishonest - and Mr. Rather is not a stupid man.


    Rather's defense ignores other key issues, such as the kerning of letters, of which even supercomputer powered text programs of the times were incapable - yet which are child's play for a modern word processing program such as Microsoft Word. Most telling is that not a single independent document expert has yet to come forth to state that he or she believes the documents are authentic.


    The CBS News Division has had a glowing history from the days of Edward R. Murrow's reporting from war-torn Britain to Walter Cronkite's emotional reporting of Neil Armstrong's walk on the Moon. But in Mr. Rather we have a man who has a history of animosity toward and bias against the Bush family. This animosity has resulted in his placing the reputation of the CBS News Division at risk in a way that threatens the very existence of CBS News as a credible news gathering and reporting organization.


    The CBS News Division franchise is a significant asset of CBS which is a significant asset of Viacom. To allow this asset to dissipate to gratify one man's long held animosity towards a politician and his family is irresponsible and possibly a breach of the fiduciary duty which director of a corporation owes its shareholders. Viacom directors should immediately act to have Mr. Rather suspended from his duties at the CBS News division and insist that the documents be submitted to an independent panel of experts to assess their authenticity. Should their opinion be that the documents are, in fact, fraudulent, Mr. Rather along with other complicit members of the CBS News Division should be summarily fired and steps be taken to realign the CBS News Division along lines of objective gathering and reporting of the news. Nothing less will preserve the value of the CBS News division franchise.


    Very truly yours,

    ************************

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 6:52 PM  

  • Someone asked " How CBS could have missed all of this? "

    I say because the Dan Rather is such a partisan hack that it got to his better judgment.

    I take it back ... didn't Zell Miller just said that what Democrats lack is judgment.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 4:58 PM  

  • This is unbelievable!

    As an experiment, I just typed up this document -
    http://www.cbsnews.com/htdocs/pdf/BushGuardaugust18.pdf - in MS Word XP using all default fonts, margins, etc. Didn't make any modifications to ANYTHING (except backspaced the auto number feature so it didn't try
    to offset the numbered paragraphs) - typed it as originally written.

    Each word broke at exactly the same point. Each letter lines up EXACTLY with the one below it.

    Then, after printing both documents (on an HP4550 printer), I took "my" version and copied it, reducing it to 91%.

    Guess what? An EXACT match when I overlay my doc on top of the one that I pulled from the link above. All of the text is in perfect alignment - not even a fraction of a millimeter off.

    There is no freakin' way that this document was composed on anything but MS Word.

    How could CBS and Dan Blather be so incredibly stupid?

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 8:26 AM  

  • Congratulations, CBS!! You've just become the "National Enquirer" of mainstream news outlets.

    Next "60 Minutes" story to hot not to push:
    "DAN RATHER ABDUCTED BY SPACE ALIENS"

    We can only hope! ;oP

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